Master Bathroom Remodel Part 3: More Plumbing Nightmares!

Before we start, Matt wants to apologize for the upcoming lack of pictures. In the next few posts, Matt forgot to take some after pictures until after things had been re-sealed up (a hazard of being behind in posting). So you'll have to be content with just words for some things.

On to the nightmares!

I suppose we should be used to this house throwing nasty surprises at us, but this one still threw us for a loop. When Matt started cutting out the subfloor to move the shower line we found out that whoever had installed the bathroom previously had severely mangled the two floor joists that the shower drain ran through. Not only had they cut notches in the middle third of the span, those notches were over half the joist in thickness! This is a major no-no in construction that could have had serious impact on the house structure. Armed with this disturbing knowledge, we acted on a hunch and checked the toilet line. It also ran through a couple joists to get to the main stack, but we hoped that it had been done correctly. No such luck, as the pictures below show the previous plumber had cut all the way through the joists to run the 3.5" line through the 7.25" joists.

This is no longer a joist, it does nothing!

In this picture you can see Matt ruining his back trying to cut through a pipe under the floor

The pipe after we had pulled off the subfloor completely

After the pipe had been removed

Suffice to say that we were a little beside ourselves knowing our floor was basically ruined. While looking for a solution, Matt decided to get an early start on the demolition of the old pipes by snapping one of the copper elbows. Because of the way we had to cut the subfloor out, the part over the pipes coming out of the floor was unstable. Both of us kept stepping on the unstable portion and causing the whole board to tip up. Matt managed to clip the hot water line and water went everywhere.

The aftermath. Obviously we got no pictures during the water explosion.

Temporary press to connect so we could turn the water back on.

After that fiasco, we finally figured out we could sister the four ruined joists and get a code approved reinforcing plate for the large toilet drain line. Normally a 2x8 joist can only support a 2.5ish hole and our toilet drain has to be a 3.5" line, hence the need for the reinforcing plate. While installing the sistering joists, we did note that the cut joists had dropped by about a 1/4" and the notched joists had dropped by about 1/8". Luckily that is nothing too major and we didn't have to jack up the floor from underneath. However, it does show just how serious this issue was.

The sister joists around the notched boards.

Just waiting on the reinforcing plates!

We then needed to run the new drain lines for the sink and the shower. Because the shower drain was over 8ft, we knew we needed to run a re-vent line in addition to the drain line. A re-vent line is installed on long drain runs to ensure that the pipe cannot fill with water due to the normal drop of the pipe. The sink line was only 5ft (the maximum for the smaller sink drain pipe) so it didn't need a re-vent.

The new sink drain line

The shower drain line with its tee for the re-vent line through the shower wall.

Oh No!!!

 Due to the fact that the shower drain needed to meet up with the toilet drain line, we had a major issue trying to meet the plumbing slope codes and the codes dictating where joists can be cut. In the end we tried to reduce the plumbing slope to 1/8 per foot. Unfortunately the pipes could still not meet up correctly without causing the toilet line to have a dip down in it. Since that would create a location where waster water would pool, we had to go back to the drawing board for our drain lines......

Attack of the Killer Ladybugs from Beyond the Walls!!!!!!

It seems when we opened up the walls, we disturbed a nest of Asian Lady Beetles (the foreign version of the red ladybug). They then proceeded to swarm all over our bedroom.

Can you spot all the ladybugs?

They just crawled over everything

Tink, Tink, Tink... They loved to attack the light.

Here's the main nest in our attic sidewall

Master Bathroom Remodel Part 2: Sparks Fly!

After tearing out all the walls, our first act was to start rewiring the Master Bathroom. As we mentioned before, the line running to the bathroom GFCI first went to some lights. Not only that, the circuit also ran most of the upstairs lights after the GFCI. All very much not up to code. In addition to the GFCI issue, when the previous owners took out the baseboard heaters, they just left the wires in the walls. Luckily these were not live, but they needed to go. Finally we noticed multiple other code violations when deconstructing the bathroom: outlet boxes buried in the attic, wire joins outside of  outlet boxes, wires run through joists without nail plates, etc.


This scared us till we realized the line was dead.



This is in an inaccessible part of the attic...Outlet boxes do no good here.

Matt ended up having to run new wires all the way down to the panel box in the basement. When the wires to the upstairs were run by the original builders, they had come up through a wall and been bent under a notched joist. We tied a string to some of the old heater wires we were pulling out, but the string couldn't pull the wire through the necessary bends and ended up breaking. Matt ended up just cutting a hole in the subfloor at the point the wires came up. We also tore out one of the closet walls in the music room to get to the wire runs. That was such a fun experience...

 

This is the tiny gap we had to feed wires up through, after they went through a small hole.

New wires run correctly!

While adding the two new lines to the electrical panel, Matt continued his tradition of trying to kill himself. First when adding the new line, Matt's pinky brushed something connected to the incoming line. Even though the main breaker was off, that part was still live and he got a bit of a shock. In addition, he got the two line reversed and ended up arcing a line when he went to test what should have been a dead wire. Oops!

In addition to just fixing the code issues, we needed to add some more lighting for the new shower stall and we needed to move the existing vent to a more central location. We ended up finding a new vent at Lowes that matched our new color scheme scarily close and changed out the ugly white model we currently had. For the shower, we ended up putting in two can lights, we were hoping to put in a flush mount light, but the price was a lot more prohibitive than we thought. Looks like Matt is cutting more holes in tile!

Surprisingly, there was an outside line for the vent installed. No more holes in the roof!

The new can lights installed

While the power was off, we decided to also repair the light in the basement entryway.

The ballast on this light went bad, nothing but replacing the unit can fix that.

It had been out ever since we bought the house and Danielle had found an LED on sale when we were looking at the can lights for the bathroom. After ordering a part so that it would mount to the drop ceiling, it installed just fine. Now Danielle can see when she goes down to the basement to do laundry!

Our new light

It puts out a surprising amount of light for a little thing.

 

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Master Bathroom Remodel Part 1: Destroy all the walls!

Finally we were able to start on the Master Bath remodel around mid November. The first step was to get all of the old stuff out and expand into the closet behind. We also needed to move the door into the master bedroom from the hallway and take out the large shower insert.

The before picture

First hole of the remodel!

One wall sans drywall!

Next we had to remove the shower liner from the bathroom. We were hoping to get it out intact so that we could donate it to the local restore. Matt had a little trouble with the old shower valves but we were finally able to get the liner free of the pocket it was in!

This valve stem was rusted and had seized up preventing us from removing it

So we ended up just lopping it off with a hacksaw after fighting it for forever.

Free of the drainpipe and leaned over to be removed!

Unfortunately, the liner was 36" wide and all the doorways and hallways in the house are 32" wide. We have no idea how the shower was brought into the house, but we do know it was not original equipment. During the deconstruction we found many indicators that the upstairs bathroom was a remodel.

Nope

We ended up having to cut the liner in two, ruining it.

So much for the time spent on careful removal.

We had originally planned on taking out the existing door, frame and all, and moving it to the new location. However when we started taking out the door, we found it was not a pre-hung door like we thought, but rather someone had framed it in with 1x4. No wonder the door had gaps....

And they drove the trim in with stud nails. Matt broke most of the trim trying to get it off.

So looking at our options for our unframed slab door, we decided doing a pocket door would be easier than trying to hand frame a door in and cheaper than buying a pre-hung door since we already had the slab. So more drywall had to come off and Matt got to use his new 23oz framing hammer to annihilate some studs.

Studs removed and the pocket door header in the wrong position..

Pocket door properly installed and working great.

Surprisingly the pocket door installed really easily and Matt had only one minor issue with it. Seems pocket door kits come in various heights, but the only place the height is specified is on a serial number on the kit box. You also need to know what the serial corresponds to. No idea who thought that was a great plan. Luckily our slab was between two sizes. Matt installed the header at the larger height before he realized the kit was for the shorter height. All we had to do was remove a couple nails and put it in at the correct height.

We finally started using our bag dumpster and ended up not having enough room.

After the deconstruction

Blinds, Blinds, Everywhere There's Blinds.....

Blockin' out the scenery, Breakin' sight lines....... Thank you, thank you, bad song parodies will be here all week.

Aside from that, Matt was able to accomplish some minor things while laid up with a sliced finger. One of the local discount stores had a deal on some cheap, but effective, bamboo blinds. Since the house didn't come with any window treatments, and a bunch of windows look out onto either the street or a neighbor's house, we picked some up and proceeded to hang them up. After spending a little time figuring out the best way to hang the blinds, we got most of them up and hung in time for Danielle's mom's visit. The blinds in the Master took a little longer to get up due to various goings on (read: Matt was lazy), but they finally got them hung late last week. All that is left is one window in the family room, but there is a slight issue with that one due to its position over the stairwell...

Vistors and Injuries

Not long after getting our plumbing in order, we were due for a visit from Matt's parents who had planned a trip up to nearby Williamsburg, Virginia. We ended up wasting a whole two weekends dealing with them ;p. Just kidding! We were actually glad for the break and had a blast visiting them in Williamsburg one weekend and then hosting them in our new house for the next.

Historic Williamsburg was a lot of fun, and we highly recommend it to any who are nearby, though it would be best to plan two or three days to see everything as there is just so much going on. We ended up visiting a lot of the tradesmen who were demonstrating 18th century life. What was amazing is that not only were they living life like the historic colonists, but they were also re-making the town as part of their jobs. The amount of work that had to go into just one building was enormous!

After Matt's parents came up to our house, we ended up having a nice relaxing weekend with them here. Matt's dad helped out a bit while we were at work by doing some yard work and using the riding mower. He agreed with Matt that it is a lot more relaxing than using a push mower.

On Saturday, Matt and his dad ended up doing some work around the house. After getting the plumbing sorted out, we were still having some issues with our dishwasher. For whatever reason, it has been leaving nasty, gritty deposits on our dishes instead of cleaning them. Matt and his dad took the whole thing apart and out of the wall to clean it thoroughly. At the time, this seemed to take care of the issue, but unfortunately it came back after a couple loads. Currently the dishwasher is just a giant drying rack for hand washed dishes.

While all that was going on, the girls went to get some massages, and then they came back and sorted out our stock of pictures. We now have pictures hung on our walls! The first stages of decoration have begun!

After Matt's parents left, we started on our next big project: the remodel of the Master Bath. Normally we would put something like this in its own post, but less than a day into tearing out the walls, Matt managed to cut himself quite deeply on a broken piece of that metal drywall edging. After much hemming and hawing, Matt finally listened to Danielle's advice and went to the local urgent care. It took visiting four different locations and about two hours of driving around the county, but now we know where it is. Luckily it is quite close. Anyways, Matt waited too long to see the doctor so he couldn't have stitches (Matt considers himself quite lucky), but they were able to clean it and give him a supply of butterfly bandages. Matt also got a prescription for some antibiotics for a minor infection, filled it, and then promptly forgot to take them. The wound is fine now, but he had to refrain from working heavily with the hand for a good week plus, further delaying the bathroom work.

Just a small wound luckily

Finally we had one more happy surprise when Danielle's mom made a quick trip down just to get away for a little while. She not only made the 10+ hour trip all by herself, but she brought down a whole bunch of Danielle's stuff that had been left with them since we got married. Danielle was happy to see many of her old keepsakes while Matt was slightly overwhelmed by the amount of stuff that she had left at her parents. Danielle's mom was a great help here at the house where she was able to help Danielle go through the new influx of stuff, urethaned our new vanity (more on that later), and even helped to take a large load of recycling and trash to the local convenience center for disposal. We were sad to see her go at the end of the week, but we will see her and Danielle's dad at the end of December for another visit.

A Tale of our Plumbing Part 2

So we were able to get a plumber out to the house, and after two visits, the leaks in the walls and under the sink have been fixed! Unfortunately, not only was the plumber not able to fix the backing up issue, but our wonderful home warranty decided not to cover the cost. Turns out, not only did the work Matt do around the leaky pipes count as tampering, but it was also a "pre-existing condition" and therefore not covered. After some research online, we found the warranty is unlikely to cover anything ever and has many dissatisfied customers. Basically, unless we have a fully documented case of something breaking and the cause cannot be tied to us in any way, the warranty will not cover the fix. Shows us for letting the seller pick the warranty company (long story). For those who might buy a home soon, never use Home Security of America as your home warranty company.

The plumber did find out that the sink vent pipe did not go up to the roof as it should, but instead dead ended somewhere in the wall. His snake ended up snagging some insulation when he checked it out. So now we have a Studor Valve, or an Air Admittance Valve, under our sink. It's like a one way valve for air triggered by the vacuum in the pipes. The old vent line is still connected in the system so we now have double protection on negative pressure in our pipes.

Our new vent

Unfortunately, like we mentioned earlier, this did not fix the backing up of our sink that first started this mess. So, after some advice from the plumber, Matt made an emergency trip to Lowes, picked up some pipe and fittings, and then replaced the whole line to the main drain line.

Matt just lopped off the whole 18' line

While he was replacing the pipe, he used the opportunity to fix some minor routing issues that he wasn't able to when he fixed the slope of the line. He also added a much better fitting for the eventual washer move. While cutting out the old pipe, we finally did find the cause of all of our trouble: a huge build up of nasty, greasy, spongy material crammed in the pipes. We would put pictures up, but Matt thinks there are laws against that level of disturbing imagery. Plus, without the smell...shudder...you don't get the full effect. We did see, however, that the snaking attempts had just put small holes in the enormous mass and confirmed what the plumber thought about the plug.

Now we have a line to add our washer to when we move it later

So beautiful...

Now the sink works wonderfully well, and the first major issue of our new house is fixed! Now onto the other 99 issues.........

Brand New Posts Served Up Piping Hot This Week!

We are still alive and kicking, I promise! We apologize for the long silence, but things have been crazy hectic around here (as you will soon learn). So, due to our promise of not dumping a whole bunch of posts all at once, and because it is still just a mite crazy around here, we will be trying to put out a post per day for the upcoming week or so. We hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving, and we wish everyone a merry Christmas season!

Matt and Danielle

Shocking Electrical Wiring

As part of our renovations, we have made sure we are getting all the correct permits and inspections. As part of the process for getting the electrical permit, not only does Matt have to take a electrical test on the NEC code book, but we have to submit a whole house wiring diagram. To do that, we needed to know where our existing wiring went. So we started a week-long discovery of our electrical wiring, mainly by shutting off random breakers till something went off.

Well, we now have every socket, light, and appliance we can think of mapped out, and our house is a complete mess. Halfway through we stopped trying to describe the circuits by room and instead made a map of the house with every socket marked and just numbered them according to the position of the breaker they were on. We found out that the house violates code about 5 different times, circuits just go wherever, and we still can't identify three 240V breakers, two 120V breakers, and what runs our smoke alarms. We do know that most likely one of the 240Vs runs our air compressor for the AC system and one runs the water well, but we can't figure out which ones those are. Below, are our hastily sketched drawings with the circuits marked. Just try to follow the numbers around.

Basement

First Floor

Attic

Luckily, we were able to plan out a new wiring diagram that uses the same amount of circuits, fixes the code violations, reuses quite a bit of the old connections and still isolates the rooms better. Hopefully, it will be approved by the electrical board when Matt passes his test.

 

Update: After rigorous testing we have determined Matt is a dolt. The two 120V circuits that were unknown are marked quite clearly on the schematic above. Matt just forgot to mark it on the switchboard layout. Also, it turns out almost all of the smoke alarms in the house are not wired, but only battery operated. Finally, the unknown 240V connection is also running to the AC unit. Somehow the AC compressor takes 1 240V wire and the AC air handler takes 2 240V wires.

Minor Improvements

As we have been moving into the house, we've noticed a couple minor things that needed fixing. We've noticed many large things that need fixing also, but those will be the subject of other posts.

First thing we did when we moved in was move the fridge out of the pantry/old stair landing so we could get access to the pantry. Luckily the fridge water line was not connected and the electrical line was long enough. All in all, a very easy fix that opened up a lot more room for food storage. (FINALLY!!!!!!!)

The fridge next to its original home

It doesn't stick out that much..........

The next thing we noticed was a small leak in the hot supply pipe of the guest bathroom tub.

The leaky junction

The leak

The home inspector had already alerted us to the likely presence of a small leak so all that remained was finding the exact cause. After examining the leak for a short while, Matt was able to figure out that the water was coming from the top of the valve. Unfortunately, the previous owners had tried to "fix" the leak by wrapping it with string and spraying it with a foam like substance (no surprise there). After chipping away at the foam, Matt was able to fix the leak simply by tightening the seal cap on the top of the valve. We fear simple fixes made harder by "fixes" is going to be the theme of this house.

Currently in the basement is a decent laundry area. It's in the wrong spot and takes up space in what could be a much larger, nicer room, but it has shelves, a table, and a couple other things. However, the table had never been finished and was a bit splintery. We found some cheap contact paper on sale for a couple dollars a roll. Danielle had Matt put it on the table so now it is a dust and splinter free area for folding and storing washed clothes.

It was cheap and didn't stick the best, but it gets the job done

Finally, we were thrilled when we moved into the house that a lot of the lights in the house had dimmers. It's a great and easy way to adjust the lighting. Unfortunately, the previous owners had gone a little overboard with the dimmers and installed one on the only fan in the house. When Matt first turned on the fan he thought it was broken or damaged due to the noise it emitted and the slow speed it moved at no matter the dimmer setting. However, on further research, we found the dimmer itself was to blame.

Note the writing that says "For permanent installed incand. fixtures"

Most dimmers can only be put on incandescent bulbs, not fans, and this one was no different. Since we have gotten a new switch and installed it, the fan now works amazingly.

Managed to install the switch upside down the first time. Have to remember to read the instructions.